Episode 62
Why Understanding Attachment Theory & Relationship Cycles Changes Everything (Encore)
You started a conversation about socks. Somehow you ended up in a fight about whether you even matter to each other. And neither of you fully understands how you got there — again.
This is the episode where Coupled With… began. One year later, it felt right to bring it back.
That gap between what the fight looks like on the surface and what it's actually about is where most couples get stuck. Not because they don't love each other. Because they're both running protection strategies that made sense long before this relationship existed. When your nervous system learned to either push toward connection or pull away from it, it was doing its job. The problem is that both of those strategies tend to make the cycle worse, not better.
This episode walks through what attachment theory actually looks like in real life — not as a label, but as an explanation for why two people can experience the exact same moment in completely different ways. It traces how those early relational patterns show up in adult conflict cycles, and specifically how the pursuer-withdrawer dynamic keeps couples locked in the same argument, no matter how many times they try to resolve it.
The shift this episode offers isn't a communication script. It's a different way of seeing — moving from what the fight is about to what the fight is for. Understanding that the behavior on both sides is protection, not indifference, changes what feels possible inside the cycle.
Insight alone doesn't change the pattern. But you can't interrupt something you haven't named yet.
If this landed for you, leaving a review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts makes it easier for people who need this to find it. It takes less than a minute and it genuinely helps.
Resources
- Free Course | Break the Cycle: A self-paced introduction to understanding your patterns and nervous system responses.
- Free Training | Why Love Feels Like Too Much: A 10-minute video that explains why you spiral in relationships — and the 3-question nervous system reset to interrupt it.
- Private Coaching (Limited Availability): High-touch, individualized support for deep relational pattern change.
- Meaningful Journey Counseling (WA residents only): Licensed therapy services for individuals and couples in Washington State.
And if you’re tired of replaying conversations at 2am…
My private audio series When Love Feels Like Too Much is the guided version of this work. Five short episodes. Companion Workbook. Nervous system resets you can actually use in the moment.
This is where we move from understanding the cycle to interrupting it.
Disclaimer
This podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not a substitute for mental health treatment, therapy, diagnosis, or medical advice. Listening to this podcast does not create a therapist-client relationship. If you are experiencing significant distress, please seek support from a licensed mental health professional or medical provider.
Transcript
Okay, so I missed our anniversary. One year of Coupled
was actually in April, and I let it slip right by me. But we're celebrating now. And honestly, I think that's pretty on brand for someone who talks about imperfect repair every week. So one year ago, I hit publish on this episode for the first time. And I want to be honest about what that took.
Because for over a decade, my voice has lived behind closed doors, in a therapy office where it's confidential, contained, and private. Putting it out here where anyone could hear it was a vulnerability I hadn't really prepared myself for. But I kept coming back to this. Not everyone is ready for couples therapy or coaching. And I wanted a way to make this more accessible, to meet people where they are.
Before they're ready for that next step. That's why this show exists. To everyone who has been tuning in every week, thank you so much. Genuinely. You didn't have to keep showing up, and you do, and that means so much to me. Now, I do want to give you a heads up. I'm taking the summer off from new episodes to spend more time with my family.
Rest and build something I'm really excited to share with you in the fall. But I will be here every week through the summer with encore episodes just like this one. So you won't be left without something to listen to. New episodes return Monday, August 31st. And if you want to support the show, leaving a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify really helps people find it. It takes less than a minute.
And it makes a real difference. Now, this episode. This is the one where it all started. It's my most listened to episode, and for good reason. Because everything else we've talked about this year builds on what's in here. If you've been with me since the beginning, think of this as a foundation refresher. If you're new, you picked a good one to start with. Here's episode one.
Have you ever started a simple conversation with your partner like, Hey, can you put your socks in the hamper? Only for it to turn into an existential debate about respect, priorities, and whether you actually love each other? Well, if this sounds familiar, congrats, you're in a relationship, and also you're probably stuck in a cycle you don't even realize is happening.
So what we're going to cover today is what attachment theory actually is in real life terms, how conflict cycles work and why they tend to repeat themselves, and the number one shift that helps you break free from them. And don't worry, this is not another just communicate better lecture, because let's be real, if that worked, you wouldn't be here.
ly makes sense in real life. [:So in childhood, we are programmed with everything that happens and all the messages received, they're just directly downloaded into our bodies and into our minds. Sometimes they're really explicit and sometimes they're not. Sometimes they're more implicit, just things that we learn from our environment.
would leave us feeling alone.[:And then there's avoidant, where we tend to feel overwhelmed by that closeness and we pull away. On a deeper level, we do want that closeness. It just feels scary. So here's an example. Imagine you text your partner, Hey, what's for dinner? And they don't respond for three hours. A secure person might assume, oh, they're busy, they'll get back to me later.
An anxious person may start to spiral, oh no, did I say something wrong? Are they angry at me? What happened? Maybe that thing that happened last night wasn't actually okay. And an avoidant person might think, okay, now I have to text back or they're going to be upset and what do I need to do to avoid conflict?
same event, and have really [:This reminds me of the first time that I ever made dinner for my now husband, so we had a plan that he would come over after he taught a dance lesson. And I knew what time the lesson was, I knew how long the lesson would be and about how long it would take him to get to my apartment. And so I started planning dinner and I started cooking dinner to time it correctly for when he would get there so it would still be warm.
ime is invalued, and it just [:And what did he do? He shut down. He got really quiet, all expression left from his face. I couldn't read him, and I got even more anxious. What was happening for him? He saw this angry person on the other side of the door. I don't even think I said hello and all of a sudden the fear that he experiences was channeled by pulling away and protecting himself from being vulnerable.
re protecting ourselves from [:So how does understanding this actually change how couples approach conflict? Well, what you have to understand is that all of these hurts, all of these reasons why we are the way we are, they don't start in that relationship. There may be things that happen in that relationship that create new sensitivities.
ions. By growing up, we have [:Children are born experiencing big emotions and learning about them, and we don't teach them anything about how emotions are okay. And I think that that's something that We're learning more as a society of how to teach our kids to understand their emotions and to regulate in healthy ways as opposed to shutting down or getting really dysregulated.
de of the playground is this [:Why are you crying? You're always crying. And it just broke my heart. Because that child was told that what he's experiencing doesn't matter to the person that's supposed to love and care about him the most.
And this is a period of time when he is starting to develop his attachment style. If he's developing an anxious attachment style, he may turn towards getting louder, crying more, getting more attention so that he can try to connect with his mom.
If he has more of an avoidant attachment style, he may learn to compartmentalize his hurts and his feelings and not bring them up with his mom because that's the only way she'll accept him.
ebody who has a pre existing [:So when you see their reaction, it may not make sense to you, and it may actually end up triggering something in you based on your own attachment system.
And once you can see it through this different lens, then you can work towards depersonalizing that behavior and start understanding it.
e wary and pull away so that [:Now we're focusing a lot on the avoidant and the anxious attachment styles, but that's not to say that with secure attachment you never have conflict. You absolutely do. People with a secure attachment just tend to trust the process a little bit more. They tend to see their partner's reactions less personally, become more curious about them, and feel more secure in their relationship so it doesn't create that intense vulnerability and fear of rejection.
That way, when they have conflict, it's not that it feels good, but they can work through it and develop even more confidence in their relationship and trust in their partner.
s. Our attachment style in a [:cared for, loved, important. And we feel like we both have enough space to be creative and independent and playful, but also enough closeness to feel secure.
Now that we understand how attachment impacts the way we respond to stress, let's talk about how this plays out in your actual arguments, the conflict cycles that you get stuck in again and again. This leads me to talking about this pattern that we see in relationships.
tends to be the more anxious [:They may ask a lot of questions or feel like they're poking at an issue. What's happening underneath is that they're scared. They want to connect with their partner. They want to know that they're important. And so they keep trying to find a way for their partner to engage. The withdrawer, on the other hand, starts to shut down.
ir partner and not accepted. [:And the more the pursuer pushes, the more the withdrawer pulls away, and repeat, and repeat. So, you're constantly stuck in this same cycle.
This is important. If you're the pursuer, your instinct is to push forward. To try to reconnect. If you're the withdrawer, you're wanting more space because you feel flooded or you're scared that anything you do will result in more escalation. But the more the pursuer pushes, the more the withdrawer withdraws.
And if you're the withdrawer, the more you withdraw, the more your partner will push. This is where couples get stuck. And now let's start talking about how to shift it.
[:We think that if we explain it correctly, if we show our partner the facts, if we get them to understand it from our point of view, then we will have this big change. They'll stop feeling hurt. They'll want to connect more with us and everything will go back to the way it was. And we actually can then [00:14:00] do that without any vulnerability.
And that's just not true. As a way to get out of these cycles, we actually have to talk about what's happening within the cycle, within this pursue withdraw cycle. Or you may actually find yourself in a withdraw withdraw cycle where you both tend to shut down and avoid conflict. And then are constantly thinking that your partner doesn't care about you because they're not reaching out to you or they're not seeking to understand.
. We get stuck in, well, you [:So for example, going back to my example with my then boyfriend, now husband, what it told me that he was so late and didn't call was that I wasn't important to him. And if that was my truth of the situation, of course, I would be really hurt. And when we get hurt, it tends to come out as anger. And he didn't realize he was doing anything that was hurting me.
t was really going to impact [:But we tend to get caught also in this pattern of perfectionism. If I just find the perfect words, it won't trigger my partner. And, you don't need the perfect words. What we're all seeking is understanding, acknowledgement and validation for our experience. But what we tend to do is actually dismiss and invalidate our partner's experience as a way to get our experience better understood.
ot like a piece of code that [:This is another person. You actually have to understand their emotions and do something different to get out of the cycle. And I'm going to share a little bit about how to do that.
But before we jump into that, I just want to address, if this feels frustrating, like, oh my god, why can't we just stop this pattern already? You're not alone. Even people who have been practicing this for a long time, we still get stuck in our own patterns because we're human. These cycles are deeply wired, and shifting them takes practice .
But the good news is that once you see the pattern, then you have the power to change it.
r, that we see safety or not [:So really starting to then slow down and name what's happening.
hat tendency to want to over [:And I think a really big part of this is prioritizing connection over being right. You know, the goal here isn't to win . You don't get a prize. There's nothing that comes with it other than feeling more disconnected from your partner. So maybe considering a little bit about why is it important for you to feel right?
that situation and have your [:Really the goal is to understand what is happening underneath the surface. Underneath the facts, underneath the content, what is happening emotionally for you? How can you share that and be a little bit more vulnerable? And how can you understand what's happening for your partner? Allowing them to feel more safe with you, to open up and be more vulnerable with you.
the partner has always said, [:You know, it really hurts to hear that. There is a part of me that maybe feels defensive because I feel misrepresented in what you're seeing. But I really want to lean towards you because I feel compassion for the pain that you're experiencing. And that helps their partner feel so much safer to open up and de escalate or come down from their anger.
And also be more understanding and open with you. So, this concept of connection can be a little bit vague. And the way that I have learned to describe it over the years is to call it not being alone.
is that safe place being our [:So seeing if you can really slow down this process, think of it as trying to walk through molasses. Instead of going directly towards the facts or the explaining, which I think is putting the cart before the horse, we have to feel like we're not alone. Once we feel connected, like we're working as a team, then we can more readily understand what's happening.
We can see the facts differently. We can problem solve more effectively. So, again, it's not about finding the perfect words. It's about going to a more vulnerable part of yourself and slowing down and listening more. Try just saying, Hey, we're stuck in our cycle. Can we hit pause? Can we try again?
I really want to understand [:Seeing if you can place your attention more on curiosity. Instead of going towards, they always pull away from me, I can never rely on them. Maybe question, what is making them withdraw? What's going on in our cycle that they're not feeling safe to open up with me? Maybe instead of thinking, they never listen.
Maybe asking yourself, what is it that I feel unheard right now? What would help me feel more understood?
ith clients is that I create [:It's not a safe space for two people to come to the table together. And you really need that safety in order to repair. And so that brings me to this last part. The goal is really to repair, even if it's something that just feels really small. So, owning your own reaction, your own part of the cycle. Hey, I know I got really frustrated.
t them. It starts to repair. [:When we feel repaired, it's closed. We forgive and we move forward and we learn from it. We're able to problem solve more effectively. We feel better. Much closer and more connected to our partner. We feel more valued. We feel more understood We feel like we're working as a team.
So being able to let go of those walls of having to have your perspective be agreed with the goal should be having your perspective understood and Knowing that your partner really cares About the impact of what this cycle had on you when you really trust that. And when your partner really trusts that with you, then you repair and you feel like you're not alone anymore.
So to sum it [:Taking responsibility or acknowledging you're part of the cycle. Prioritizing connection and not letting your partner be alone over being right. Shifting away from blame. And working towards repair. As you do this more frequently and you get more practice, your body starts to remember. And these little conflicts don't feel as threatening anymore.
our body and your mind don't [:All right, so let's wrap up today's session. Today we covered how attachment styles shape conflict. Why couples get stuck in cycles, and a simple mindset and process shift to start breaking free from these old cycles that keep you stuck again and again. So, final thought. Next time you argue, don't focus on fixing the topic.
Just focus on noticing the pattern. That alone can change everything.
